Tijdens Laracon EU 2026 spreken we met Ana Lisboa, Laravel-ontwikkelaar uit Portugal en bestuurslid van Larabelles, de gemeenschap die vrouwen binnen het Laravel-ecosysteem ondersteunt.
Ana vertelt hoe ze Laravel ontdekte bij het herbouwen van een interne PHP-tool en hoe de Laravel-gemeenschap haar carrière heeft gevormd. Inmiddels werkt ze als Laravel-ontwikkelaar en draagt ze via Larabelles actief bij aan de gemeenschap.
Welcome to the Dutchl [music] >> broadcasting live from 2026 letter to you. >> Tada. >> That was nice. >> Yeah, somebody here. >> No, we made it with AI. >> I was wondering that. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> I was going to ask. >> Yeah, you can do that. Yeah, it would be pretty easy with suno.ai. M >> well enough about that AI. Um yeah, who are you? >> Hi, I'm Anna. I come from Portugal. I live in Braa. No one knows what that is. So it's 50 kilometers north from Porto, you know, like Port Wine. >> Yeah, >> that's a good explanation. >> Yeah, we know uh Porto also because of the football, I guess. >> Not my town is also known from playing football. >> Oh, right. Yeah, actually uh EO 2006 was in my town. Uh one of the the the plays were there and a lot of people from the Netherlands came to play and it was just an amazing orange party. Yeah. >> During the local party in my town with it was really cool. >> Okay, cool. Yeah, we're good at giving parties in orange. Uh yeah, I know. >> Oh, all right. So, um you're flying from uh Porto as well. >> Yeah. >> All right. Right. Okay. So, cool. And um yeah, can you tell a little bit about your history of uh how you become a programmer and uh how that works for you?
Yeah. Well, I went to university in information systems management and then I took the masters uh but I got out of the university during the crisis in Portugal like money crisis basically. >> Oh, that was the money crisis. >> Yeah. >> 2008 something like that. 82 I got out of um I delivered my thesis in the end of 2012. So I started looking for work at 2013 >> and so I got a nice admin job >> right >> that anyone can do because in tech I can find any jobs. The interviews were also interesting uh because I got questions like are you are you a geek you don't look like one. Oh, >> do you code or do you do the reports during the university? >> Um, oh, the most interesting one. Um, >> do you like to be in male dominated environments? >> All right. >> Or were you alone during university? >> Yeah, >> I laugh now. But during interviews, I mean, those questions are >> not kind of weird, right? >> Yes. >> But then again, also Yeah. It's so stupid that that that it is a thing, right? And >> but it but it is also a little bit of the thing. If you look now here around you, it's also it is there. You know, we're all there. There's like 95% it's males.
It is. But you don't go around asking the people that you are seeing, the women that you are seeing, >> are you okay being in a male dominated space? [laughter] >> You don't go around and ask that. So, it's male dominated here or is it [laughter] just a lot of males? Yeah, that's a kind of weird question. >> I mean, it's a rough translation. Again, I'm not native, so >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh, but then I I got started into that admin job doing some time sheets and uh they started to develop a PHP um management tool that got hacked into it. >> Oh. >> Because it was just made basic PHP. >> Yeah. and they killed it uh because we kept getting being broken into. And the company that I worked for, it was a really small company. They were thinking of hiring someone to do that job, outsourcing it. And I was like, >> I saw an opportunity. >> Yes. Yes. I mean, I can do that. At least let me give it a go. >> Yeah. >> And that's when I started to research about frameworks. I didn't really know any of them. I knew that they existed and they served a purpose and that's how I found Laravel, >> right?
And I started with Laravel 5.1. >> All right. >> And I migrated that tool and developed more features for it and I I really I really enjoyed that. Um then I moved to an agency. I built corporate websites and worked on their CMS. I built it the one that it used at that time. >> Yeah. But you the websites you also were building in Laravel or also in other frameworks? >> Yes. Yes. I use Laravel to build the CS the CMS >> that you were using and then I also built the front-facing uh parts of the website. >> Okay. So you were fully hooked on Laravel from then. >> Yes. I mean [laughter] from the get-go when I started in that first project I really enjoyed Laravel. I found Larcast and you know the >> helped me a lot as well. Yeah, >> the get started, you know, those basic uh lot of from scratch. The from scratch series. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that one. Yeah, [laughter] >> the one that everyone sees. >> Yeah. And now now then I'm I'm questioning if it's even if you have to if you're now starting with all the AI things that are going around. You don't have to look to walk through all the Larfell uh Lacost videos. I guess >> I mean yeah but if you have to at least have uh if you want to at least have some idea of what you're doing >> about the concept >> yeah it's like a foundational thing right otherwise you're just trusting AI should you >> should you yolo everything >> uh well I'm by myself I'm I'm putting more like the agents so I work cursor now not at cloud code I'm kind of the weird guy but uh so I'm I'm thinking
that my agent uh window is getting larger and larger and larger because I'm I'm literally shifting dragging the uh the agent window to a larger point. But I think oh I don't see my code anymore >> really not even review it. >> Well I do that on a yeah I do that on GitHub desktop but not in my code editor anymore but yeah yeah okay so you have to know the knowledge and the basics because you have to apply the code if you don't know it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. All right. Okay. Yeah, you're right about that. >> Okay. So, um >> I think we got a little sidetracked. >> Yeah. [laughter] And exactly. >> Uh the what? Yeah. >> Uh I was uh building CMS and I moved to another company where they didn't work with Laravel. >> Yeah. >> Uh they did some e-commerce stuff and um then I had my baby, my son. All right. I left that company, started to work with a cool guy uh from Porto. Uh we worked on filament. >> Oh >> yeah. Because I had released a filament course for um LinkedIn uh learning. >> Yeah. >> And we got to know each other through that. I was posting on the filament discord >> and it was like this name sounds Portuguese. Let me send her a message.
Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, well, I'm not that interested because, you know, I have a small child that I need to tend to." >> But he was like, "Well, let's just talk." And we talked. We hit it off. It was amazing. I had a really good time working with him. Props to the Yugo. [laughter] >> But then that project ended. Nothing lasts forever. >> And I started to do a little uh work for Shift for Jac. >> All right. And also I through Laravel's I met uh the current company that I'm working at Cadence5. >> Yeah. >> Uh I was sharing during uh in the Larabell's discord that I was looking for new opportunities. Their CEO which is a Laravel member also got in touch with me and I started to work with them in January and it's it's been an amazing an amazing time. >> Okay, cool. So now it's Jan it's March so it's just begun. Uh so it's just started in uh January. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But you're really also into the in the latter community. They they find you. >> Yeah. >> They they they didn't uh ring me a a call. >> Oh, sorry. >> So they didn't call me, they called you. >> Letter bells. >> Uh well, your new employee, uh the guys on shift, uh the guy in Portugal, >> you know, right? Yeah.
I mean, >> you're doing stuff really good as well. >> I don't I mean I don't think so. I don't see myself in that way. But uh I don't know if you remember uh Aaron's talk on his first Laron EU maybe two years ago. >> Oh, maybe. Yeah, I see all the videos, but I don't help me a bit and the audience as well. >> Yes. Uh I don't fully remember the sentence of you know the key phrase of his of his talk, but it was something about >> showing up and just share. >> Yeah. >> And it kind of works, [laughter] >> right? I mean I >> so put out put out there what you build and showing up be there be accountable. >> Exactly. I mean and I don't I don't post a lot. I don't know I don't don't do a lot of technical stuff. I post here and there some things that I find interesting. I mean you know the the the LinkedIn learning courses were a bit different. you know that those are actual courses um introductory from my standpoint but it was again sharing what I had done that got me those connections. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's amazing. Uh try it. >> Yeah. Exactly. But because that's also the advice that you can give us as well.
Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's basically it. [laughter] >> But you can see that it happens, right? >> Yeah. It's not magic, but eventually something will pick up. Yeah. And that was what's that's what what Aaron was talking about in his talk. >> Yeah. Is it Is that the No, that's >> Aaron Francis. Oh, >> Aaron Francis was talking about Adam from Tailwind. >> No, no, no. Aaron Aaron D. Francis, >> right? Well, we have a lot of links to show in the show notes right now already. [laughter] >> Sorry for giving you too much work. >> Okay. No, no, it's great. It's great. [laughter] also the audience that know where to find it, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, um and your current company, uh what do you do there? Uh >> well, I'm a uh Laravel developer. Uh I work basically with >> the one of the tools that we have uh doing back end but liveware stuff as well. I mean, I'm getting started. I'm still learning the ropes, you know, but that's the the path uh for me in in the company. Yeah. >> All right. All right. Cool. And you also do so work with shift >> and on filament. >> I do [laughter] >> let me explain.
Yeah. Because it it's not that you know amazing. Uh [laughter] >> I do some work for the shift website uh for Jason. >> Yeah. >> Uh that's one of the the other things that I do. >> Yeah. >> Oh, and I'm forgetting about another one with I I used to work with filament. you as in using filament in my work not developing >> because you were making a CMS in Laravel then there was nothing way back >> yeah no no the CMS was way back before filament or it was around 2016 so I don't think filament was around back then >> no it wasn't >> yeah [laughter] and I uh was forgetting I also do a little bit of research for um Ed Stafer's book, >> right? >> Uh, which I'm in that with him right now. I need to catch up on it and it's also interesting. Uh, what I do allows me to keep up with the new launches in the Laravel um, framework which is really really cool because otherwise why would you read the change law? >> Yeah. So there's also a book. >> Yes. The level up and running. >> Oh right. >> It's not written by me. It's my Matt. I just help him do a little research so that it's a little bit more manageable for for his work.
Yeah. All right. Cool. Well, cool stuff here. Okay. And um you're also a member of the Labelsh. >> Yes. I >> Can you tell a little bit about Larabels? >> Yes. Well, I'm a board member of Laravel's actually alongside with Zuzanna, you know, the face that everyone knows and Diana. Uh Laravel is a community uh in the Laravel web space mostly uh for women and people who identify as women. Uh it was built um by Susanna uh basically to meet friends. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Um I don't know if you the Susanna's talk is already published by the time that we are speaking but I can make a quick introdu introduction. Yeah. >> Sorry. [laughter] Uh well basically she was seeing online a few years ago that there were some communities like Rails girls and >> for WordPress there's also a community. >> Yes. Yes. and she was tweeting wondering if there was something like that for Laval because she was new to it >> and she basically wanted to meet people to talk to and that she could relate to and one person replied to her tweet saying, "Well, why don't you build one?" >> Yeah, exactly. >> And that's how Laravel got started.
Oh, whoops. [laughter] >> Okay, cool. And and what do does Laravel uh means? What what what's your role as a board member? What does it mean for you? >> I mean uh we are a nonprofit uh anyone can join. You don't have to pay anything. And we basically have our website where we publish giveaways for conference tickets and usually there's some financial support for people to attend the the conferences. We have the members directory on our website which you can just >> send us a message in through our form to be a part of it. And we have the discord community where you can join and talk to us about you know off topic tag things. >> Yeah. >> Questions, you know, just just just sharing around, you know, it's really just a way to make yourself feel welcomed and having someone to talk to. That's the the main goal. >> All right. And um so we have a lot of agencies that's that are listening right now. Is it also uh a good way to get some more female uh on your team to look at the Laravel Laravel website or something like that or is it not really the the meant to be kind of way? >> No, I mean we want to promote uh women and people who identify as women to get out there to be seen to be promoted to be helped. So if anyone is interested to to try and meet letter bells, yeah, it's a great opportunity. I mean the the the job that I got um right now with Cadence, I got it through letter bells because the CEO was a member and she saw that I was posting that I was open to new opportunities and we started to talk
and it happened. >> It is a great opportunity, right? Yeah. but also for people to who are searching to build a better culture, not only a male culture or another. Yeah, >> it's a it's a good >> friends visiting >> as well. Yeah. All right. Cool. Well, at the Darfell Foundation, we also uh sponsor Lara Bells uh and uh so that's nice to know also for the members. Uh and uh yeah, we support you guys as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. >> And I really love my elephants. [laughter] Yeah, no problem there. And uh is there also something that you're uh what what your highlight is so for so far or that you're reaching out for the next couple of hours? >> Uh well, I really enjoyed I mean I found it really funny the claw phone thing. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, do you want to merge this PR? But the the native BHP stuff, those guys, what they are doing, >> they're rocking it, right? Did you see Shane's t-shirt during the talk? >> Yeah, with uh Britney Spears. >> Britney Spears on [laughter] it. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that's also a kind of gimmick to wear funny t-shirts, I guess. >> Really? >> Because yesterday I also saw uh like a bangy banana with a tape thing. Oh, but they're also from Yeah, it was also from Native.
I I remember seeing that one in his talk. But you know, have you seen Casper with a Kakra t-shirt? >> Yeah, [laughter] >> there's a thing going on. Yeah, there's I I guess I guess so. Yeah. Okay. I want to thank you uh thank you very much for having us on for having you on our show. >> Thank you for having me. >> Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Well, [laughter] >> okay. Let's wrap it up. >> Thanks for listening to the Dutch Laravel [music] Foundation podcast. This one is for you. [music] Broadcasting live from 2026.